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I know everyone is already talking about it...
October 2nd 2003, 20:15 CEST by Matt Perkins

HL2 source has been released...er, leaked.  Or at least something that is proven as a reasonable facsimile.

This is bad, right?

Or is it only bad for valve?  Sure, cheaters might get a step up on the hacking side, but valve or something will counter them with something else.  And you shouldn't play on unmoderated servers anyway.

The good would be that every FPS out there that wants to see how Valve did such and such, they can now look and figure it out.  This will make better games for us, the general gamer, public, no?  As someone mentioned on Qt3, DNF just got a lot closer to releasing...



This is does not mean I don't think the 'leaker' should be prosecuted or whatever, because this may end up costing Valve a lot of money, which just ain't right.
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#5 by Matt Perkins
2003-10-02 20:20:42
wizardque@yahoo.com http://whatwouldmattdo.com/
My opinion on this is that it doesn't mean much to other developers.  The things Valve are doing are well documented in countless white papers.  Technology wise, it's not that big a deal.  Valve has always been about the content of their games anyway.

That's what I was wondering about...  So everything Valve does is essentially open source already?  Just takes work and know how to reproduce it?  The source would mean nothing in helping that along?

"I'm an extreme programmer. I don't plan anything when I code."- Lord Nekrull
#6 by Warren Marshall
2003-10-02 20:21:56
http://www.wantonhubris.com/
#5 Matt Perkins
My opinion on this is that it doesn't mean much to other developers.  The things Valve are doing are well documented in countless white papers.  Technology wise, it's not that big a deal.  Valve has always been about the content of their games anyway.

That's what I was wondering about...  So everything Valve does is essentially open source already?  Just takes work and know how to reproduce it?  The source would mean nothing in helping that along?

Source code out of context really isn't as useful as you might imagine.

Respawn Games
Open your mind, let the beatings begin.
#7 by Shadarr
2003-10-02 20:22:47
shadarr@yahoo.com http://digital-luddite.com
HL2 requires Steam, right?  So all they have to do is force some sort of hashalg check and replace anything that fails.

As for whether this will help people warez the game...  maybe it'll speed up creating the cracked exe, but otherwise it seems like a lot more hassle than warezing the game through normal channels.
#8 by Dethstryk
2003-10-02 20:23:29
jemartin@tcainternet.com
Has it been verified that it's the real source code? I mean, there's all kinds of gl_quake shit in there.

sunny days have funny ways of quieting the roar
#9 by Gunp01nt
2003-10-02 20:24:12
supersimon33@hotmail.com
but the source code has stuff like the netcode, physics engine etc. in it, right? people may not have any content but I bet a savvy programmer could use that code (or parts) in his own projects. if the full netcode, steam authentication etc. is in there, it would be easier to find a way to fool Steam. Also, exploitable bugs.

Little things like the apocalyptic extinction of all human life tend to make nuclear war a tad less necessary.
#10 by "Anonymous"
2003-10-02 20:32:07
sure , of course random people of the internet will find bugs that the developers didn't find just by looking at the code
#11 by Leslie Nassar
2003-10-02 20:35:31
http://departmentofinternets.com
hahaha

"There are design firms out there that could come up with things we've never thought of," Jobs continued, "things that would make you shit in your pants."
#12 by Leslie Nassar
2003-10-02 20:36:49
http://departmentofinternets.com
IT IS TEH INTARWEB MANY OPEN SORE EYES FIND BUGS!!!  AND FIX!  FUCK MICRO$OFT!!!!!

"There are design firms out there that could come up with things we've never thought of," Jobs continued, "things that would make you shit in your pants."
#13 by Warren Marshall
2003-10-02 20:38:28
http://www.wantonhubris.com/
Watch out for the grue, Leslie.

Respawn Games
Open your mind, let the beatings begin.
#14 by Greg
2003-10-02 20:41:28
#8 Dethstryk

Has it been verified that it's the real source code? I mean, there's all kinds of gl_quake shit in there.

It has gl_quake shit in there because it isn't just the HL2 source code, but also HL1 and CS and TF2 and, reportedly, Steam.

I would suppose people could probably build the HL1 tree and have it work using their already installed copy of the data.

As to what it means, Valve is obviously screwed a little here. But more in the "now the script kiddies have the network code" kind of way, rather than 3DR or Blizzard or whoever having the code.

I'm not too concerned, only hopeful that this doesn't cause them to disappear for a few months while they try to change some of the exploitable areas of the leaked code. I don't plan on playing the multiplayer game anyway.

We are OK in a misguided, sadist way.
We are OK in a disabled veteran's way.
We are OK.
#15 by Leslie Nassar
2003-10-02 20:42:29
http://departmentofinternets.com
Warren, I keep meaning to ask; how are things going with Respawn?  Have you learned any important lessons that you care to share?

"There are design firms out there that could come up with things we've never thought of," Jobs continued, "things that would make you shit in your pants."
#16 by Warren Marshall
2003-10-02 20:44:17
http://www.wantonhubris.com/
Of course they will have to disappear and rewrite the exploitable parts of the code.  This would undoubtably push back the release date (whatever it currently is) by at least a month.

On the other hand, since Greg won't play the multiplayer game, I guess it's safe to release as is.

Respawn Games
Open your mind, let the beatings begin.
#17 by Warren Marshall
2003-10-02 20:44:55
http://www.wantonhubris.com/
#15 Leslie Nassar
Warren, I keep meaning to ask; how are things going with Respawn?  Have you learned any important lessons that you care to share?

Several.  What it all boils down to is : Making games is hard.

Respawn Games
Open your mind, let the beatings begin.
#18 by Desiato
2003-10-02 20:45:18
desiato_hotblack@hotmail.com http://www.spew2.com/
Probably not talking about it until he's ready, would be one.

Programmers are the new blue-collar workforce. Bangalore or bust! Viva global economy!
#19 by Dethstryk
2003-10-02 20:47:39
jemartin@tcainternet.com
Well, I'd like to hunt down the one responsible for this if it means HL2 is delayed even further.

sunny days have funny ways of quieting the roar
#20 by Greg
2003-10-02 20:49:28
#16 Warren Marshall

On the other hand, since Greg won't play the multiplayer game, I guess it's safe to release as is.

Well hey, if the horse's mouth didn't say there would be a single player only release, I guess that wouldn't be an option, eh?

We are OK in a misguided, sadist way.
We are OK in a disabled veteran's way.
We are OK.
#21 by Matthew Gallant
2003-10-02 20:49:35
http://www.truemeaningoflife.com
#19 Dethstryk
Well, I'd like to hunt down the one responsible for this if it means HL2 is delayed even further.

Even if the one responsible is a hot 13 year-old?

"All I've ever wanted to be is a monkey of moderate intelligence that wears a suit. That's why I'm transferring to business school!"
#22 by Dethstryk
2003-10-02 20:50:34
jemartin@tcainternet.com
MattG

You have a kid?

sunny days have funny ways of quieting the roar
#23 by Neale
2003-10-02 20:51:33
neale@pimurho.co.uk www.pimurho.co.uk
There's no Steam source in there. HL2, TF2, HL1 and CS only. There's also the latest worldcraft/hammer editor, and all the tools. It all compiles cleanly.

Worldcraft

You can't derail this train of idiocy, Shadarr. Not even with a big fat cow of logic on the tracks. - Bailey
#24 by Leslie Nassar
2003-10-02 20:52:10
http://departmentofinternets.com
Several.  What it all boils down to is : Making games is hard.

Pfft.  Whatever.  I have this idea for a game that's groundbreaking, paradigm-shifting, externus archa, and cliche-shattering.  "Making games is hard" is just another way of saying "I suck".  You'd suck less if you made my game.  I'll sell you the idea for $50,000 and you can go from game developer <i>zero</i> to game developer <i>hero</i>.

"There are design firms out there that could come up with things we've never thought of," Jobs continued, "things that would make you shit in your pants."
#25 by Leslie Nassar
2003-10-02 20:53:08
http://departmentofinternets.com
I meant to do that.

"There are design firms out there that could come up with things we've never thought of," Jobs continued, "things that would make you shit in your pants."
#26 by wabut
2003-10-02 20:53:15
Even if the one responsible is a hot 13 year-old?

more the reason to do the hunting.
#27 by Dethstryk
2003-10-02 20:53:18
jemartin@tcainternet.com
Neale

You mean it all compiles cleanly, except for the fact that there aren't any resources for the game, right?

sunny days have funny ways of quieting the roar
#28 by lwf
2003-10-02 20:54:28
The tools compile though, he can get to work on making maps.

the rain hits the ground and the trees they dry it up
#29 by Matthew Gallant
2003-10-02 20:55:23
http://www.truemeaningoflife.com
#27 Dethstryk
Neale

You mean it all compiles cleanly, except for the fact that there aren't any resources for the game, right?

An engine doesn't need game resources to compile. That's why it's called an engine.

"All I've ever wanted to be is a monkey of moderate intelligence that wears a suit. That's why I'm transferring to business school!"
#30 by Warren Marshall
2003-10-02 21:00:14
http://www.wantonhubris.com/
#28 lwf
The tools compile though, he can get to work on making maps.

That'll be tough without things like textures.

Respawn Games
Open your mind, let the beatings begin.
#31 by Dethstryk
2003-10-02 21:05:36
jemartin@tcainternet.com
MattG
An engine doesn't need game resources to compile. That's why it's called an engine.

Yes, which is why I was pointing out the futility of compiling it to begin with.

sunny days have funny ways of quieting the roar
#32 by lwf
2003-10-02 21:07:32
I assume he already has the tools required to make textures, doesn't Paint still come with windows?

the rain hits the ground and the trees they dry it up
#33 by Dethstryk
2003-10-02 21:08:29
jemartin@tcainternet.com
Yank the textures from Quake, tweak the physics, and re-make Q1.

sunny days have funny ways of quieting the roar
#34 by Dethstryk
2003-10-02 21:10:37
jemartin@tcainternet.com
Has this been determined to be the full engine source, or more along the lines of an SDK? I haven't seen anyone leak pictures of main source code spots yet. I haven't really had time to follow it, either.

sunny days have funny ways of quieting the roar
#35 by Squeaky
2003-10-02 21:19:49
I just wanted to let you all know that Eliza Dukshu is coming to my school tomorrow to shoot some scenes for a movie. I'll be sure to bring my digital camera. GIF! GIF!




fuck you all

The reason of your unreasonable usage of my reason, does so enfeeble my reason, that I have reason to expostulate with your beauty.
DVDs
#36 by ProStyle
2003-10-02 21:28:01
http://prostyle.deviantart.com
I dont see how the assumption is drawn that this leak will aid cheaters. By the time the game comes out don't you imagine the hacks they wrote for the leaked (not finished i'm assuming) code won't be compatible? That's ignoring Steam which I have some faith in for performing checks on players machines. I know if my copy of Hl2 would be invalidated by getting caught cheating i'd be feeling pretty stupid, not to mention be 50 dollars less rich.

I'm like a quote out of context...
#37 by Matt Perkins
2003-10-02 21:35:21
wizardque@yahoo.com http://whatwouldmattdo.com/
Eliza Dukshu is coming to my school

Hmmm...  I guess it's a good thing I don't work there, I don't think my wife would allow me to go.   Something about my obession with the bandana for a shirt thing.  :P

"I'm an extreme programmer. I don't plan anything when I code."- Lord Nekrull
#38 by Dethstryk
2003-10-02 21:50:31
jemartin@tcainternet.com
Cheats will be written the minute the SDK comes out, anyway. That's how it works.

sunny days have funny ways of quieting the roar
#39 by Shadarr
2003-10-02 21:52:26
shadarr@yahoo.com http://digital-luddite.com
Perhaps this will make it easier for the crackers to rip out all that crappy Steam authentication crap, so you can play LAN games without an internet connection (and only one CD).
#40 by Dethstryk
2003-10-02 21:53:48
jemartin@tcainternet.com
I thought they went back and said that LAN games didn't need to have Steam authentication? I mean, that's, well.. fucking retarded.

sunny days have funny ways of quieting the roar
#41 by lwf
2003-10-02 21:58:11
Lanning without internet is so 1998.

the rain hits the ground and the trees they dry it up
#42 by Dethstryk
2003-10-02 22:01:01
jemartin@tcainternet.com
True, but it's still ridiculous to require authentication from an outside server when every machine involved (including server) are on the same network.

sunny days have funny ways of quieting the roar
#43 by Shadarr
2003-10-02 22:02:05
shadarr@yahoo.com http://digital-luddite.com
I thought they went back and said that LAN games didn't need to have Steam authentication?


Did they?  Last I heard it was "If you so much as think about multiplayer Steam will install itself and reconfigure your machine to suit its own needs."
#44 by Dethstryk
2003-10-02 22:03:26
jemartin@tcainternet.com
Hrmf. This is the problem with HL2; Valve isn't controlling the rumors at all with at least an attempt to set some issues straight.

sunny days have funny ways of quieting the roar
#45 by ProStyle
2003-10-02 22:05:48
http://prostyle.deviantart.com
I think they'll have them pretty well under control when the game is released.

I'm like a quote out of context...
#46 by Gunp01nt
2003-10-02 22:09:12
supersimon33@hotmail.com
Warren:
This would undoubtably push back the release date (whatever it currently is) by at least a month.


the plot comes together.

Little things like the apocalyptic extinction of all human life tend to make nuclear war a tad less necessary.
#47 by Darkseid-D
2003-10-02 22:50:43
rogerboal@hotmail.com
Immanuel Kant was a real pissant
Who was very rarely stable
Heidegger, Heidegger was a boozy beggar
Who could take you under the table
David Hume could out-consume
Schopenhauer and Hegel
And Wittgenstein was a beery swine
Who was just as sloshed as Schlegel
There's nothing Nietszche couldn't teach ya
'Bout the raising of the wrist
Socrates himself was permanently pissed
John Stuart Mill of his own free will
On half a pint of shandy was particularly ill
Plato they say could stick it away
Half a crate of whiskey every day
Aristotle, Aristotle was a bugger for the bottle
Hobbes was fond of his Dram
And Rene Descartes was a drunken fart
"I drink, therefore I am !"
Yes Socrates himself is particularly missed
A lovely little thinker
But a bugger when he's pissed.


oh and heres a freebie magazine link - http://www.magazine-city.net/razor/razor.asp

Do not go gently into that good night.
Old age should burn and rage at the close of day.
Rage, rage against the dying of the light.
#48 by Squeaky
2003-10-02 22:53:29
#47 Darkseid-D
oh and heres a freebie magazine link - http://www.magazine-city.net/razor/razor.asp

Well that doesn't help now us non Yanks does it?


What is Razor? Does the warez group have it's own magazine now?

The reason of your unreasonable usage of my reason, does so enfeeble my reason, that I have reason to expostulate with your beauty.
DVDs
#49 by The_Joker
2003-10-02 23:18:12
http://www.jackinworld.com
I'll bet anyone 50 bucks that DNF's source code and content gets leaked before it, if ever, ships.

Joker, Ph.D. Procedural Assholian Behaviour, Pedophilosopher
- All your ass are belong to my wang Jafd. Prepare to are penetration.
"I fart in THX." - Sgt_Hulka

PENETRATOR: Rise of the Wang Cuming "When it's done".
#50 by The_Joker
2003-10-02 23:19:23
http://www.jackinworld.com
and now, for my daily wank session...

Joker, Ph.D. Procedural Assholian Behaviour, Pedophilosopher
- All your ass are belong to my wang Jafd. Prepare to are penetration.
"I fart in THX." - Sgt_Hulka

PENETRATOR: Rise of the Wang Cuming "When it's done".
#51 by Ashiran
2003-10-02 23:38:34
You only have one wank session? Or does it last all day?

AND DON'T ADD A SMILEY AFTER EVERY GODDAMN THING YOU SAY!
#52 by "wabut"
2003-10-02 23:44:08
wabut@yahoo.com http://jove.prohosting.com/~datafox
official statement from gabe via shugashack via halflife2forums -> http://www.shacknews.com/onearticle.x/28619
#53 by Neale
2003-10-02 23:45:44
neale@pimurho.co.uk www.pimurho.co.uk
From Gabe:

Ever have one of those weeks? This has just not been the best couple of days
for me or for Valve.

Yes, the source code that has been posted is the HL-2 source code.

Here is what we know:

1) Starting around 9/11 of this year, someone other than me was accessing my
email account. This has been determined by looking at traffic on our email
server versus my travel schedule.

2) Shortly afterwards my machine started acting weird (right-clicking on
executables would crash explorer). I was unable to find a virus or trojan on
my machine, I reformatted my hard drive, and reinstalled.

3) For the next week, there appears to have been suspicious activity on my
webmail account.

4) Around 9/19 someone made a copy of the HL-2 source tree.

5) At some point, keystroke recorders got installed on several machines at
Valve. Our speculation is that these were done via a buffer overflow in
Outlook's preview pane. This recorder is apparently a customized version of
RemoteAnywhere created to infect Valve (at least it hasn't been seen
anywhere else, and isn't detected by normal virus scanning tools).

6) Periodically for the last year we've been the subject of a variety of
denial of service attacks targetted at our webservers and at Steam. We don't
know if these are related or independent.

Well, this sucks.

What I'd appreciate is the assistance of the community in tracking this
down. I have a special email address for people to send information to,
helpvalve@valvesoftware.com. If you have information about the denial of
service attacks or the infiltration of our network, please send the details.
There are some pretty obvious places to start with the posts and records in
IRC, so if you can point us in the right direction, that would be great.

We at Valve have always thought of ourselves as being part of a community,
and I can't imagine a better group of people to help us take care of these
problems than this community.

Gabe


__________________
Gabe Newell

You can't derail this train of idiocy, Shadarr. Not even with a big fat cow of logic on the tracks. - Bailey
#54 by Dumdeedum
2003-10-02 23:46:35
http://www.dumdeedum.com
Gabe Newell appears to have confirmed that it is the HL2 source, he also seems to have appended some sort of conspiracy theory to the end of his post...

Studies have shown that I'm right.
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