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I know everyone is already talking about it...
October 2nd 2003, 20:15 CEST by Matt Perkins

HL2 source has been released...er, leaked.  Or at least something that is proven as a reasonable facsimile.

This is bad, right?

Or is it only bad for valve?  Sure, cheaters might get a step up on the hacking side, but valve or something will counter them with something else.  And you shouldn't play on unmoderated servers anyway.

The good would be that every FPS out there that wants to see how Valve did such and such, they can now look and figure it out.  This will make better games for us, the general gamer, public, no?  As someone mentioned on Qt3, DNF just got a lot closer to releasing...



This is does not mean I don't think the 'leaker' should be prosecuted or whatever, because this may end up costing Valve a lot of money, which just ain't right.
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#21 by Matthew Gallant
2003-10-02 20:49:35
http://www.truemeaningoflife.com
#19 Dethstryk
Well, I'd like to hunt down the one responsible for this if it means HL2 is delayed even further.

Even if the one responsible is a hot 13 year-old?

"All I've ever wanted to be is a monkey of moderate intelligence that wears a suit. That's why I'm transferring to business school!"
#22 by Dethstryk
2003-10-02 20:50:34
jemartin@tcainternet.com
MattG

You have a kid?

sunny days have funny ways of quieting the roar
#23 by Neale
2003-10-02 20:51:33
neale@pimurho.co.uk www.pimurho.co.uk
There's no Steam source in there. HL2, TF2, HL1 and CS only. There's also the latest worldcraft/hammer editor, and all the tools. It all compiles cleanly.

Worldcraft

You can't derail this train of idiocy, Shadarr. Not even with a big fat cow of logic on the tracks. - Bailey
#24 by Leslie Nassar
2003-10-02 20:52:10
http://departmentofinternets.com
Several.  What it all boils down to is : Making games is hard.

Pfft.  Whatever.  I have this idea for a game that's groundbreaking, paradigm-shifting, externus archa, and cliche-shattering.  "Making games is hard" is just another way of saying "I suck".  You'd suck less if you made my game.  I'll sell you the idea for $50,000 and you can go from game developer <i>zero</i> to game developer <i>hero</i>.

"There are design firms out there that could come up with things we've never thought of," Jobs continued, "things that would make you shit in your pants."
#25 by Leslie Nassar
2003-10-02 20:53:08
http://departmentofinternets.com
I meant to do that.

"There are design firms out there that could come up with things we've never thought of," Jobs continued, "things that would make you shit in your pants."
#26 by wabut
2003-10-02 20:53:15
Even if the one responsible is a hot 13 year-old?

more the reason to do the hunting.
#27 by Dethstryk
2003-10-02 20:53:18
jemartin@tcainternet.com
Neale

You mean it all compiles cleanly, except for the fact that there aren't any resources for the game, right?

sunny days have funny ways of quieting the roar
#28 by lwf
2003-10-02 20:54:28
The tools compile though, he can get to work on making maps.

the rain hits the ground and the trees they dry it up
#29 by Matthew Gallant
2003-10-02 20:55:23
http://www.truemeaningoflife.com
#27 Dethstryk
Neale

You mean it all compiles cleanly, except for the fact that there aren't any resources for the game, right?

An engine doesn't need game resources to compile. That's why it's called an engine.

"All I've ever wanted to be is a monkey of moderate intelligence that wears a suit. That's why I'm transferring to business school!"
#30 by Warren Marshall
2003-10-02 21:00:14
http://www.wantonhubris.com/
#28 lwf
The tools compile though, he can get to work on making maps.

That'll be tough without things like textures.

Respawn Games
Open your mind, let the beatings begin.
#31 by Dethstryk
2003-10-02 21:05:36
jemartin@tcainternet.com
MattG
An engine doesn't need game resources to compile. That's why it's called an engine.

Yes, which is why I was pointing out the futility of compiling it to begin with.

sunny days have funny ways of quieting the roar
#32 by lwf
2003-10-02 21:07:32
I assume he already has the tools required to make textures, doesn't Paint still come with windows?

the rain hits the ground and the trees they dry it up
#33 by Dethstryk
2003-10-02 21:08:29
jemartin@tcainternet.com
Yank the textures from Quake, tweak the physics, and re-make Q1.

sunny days have funny ways of quieting the roar
#34 by Dethstryk
2003-10-02 21:10:37
jemartin@tcainternet.com
Has this been determined to be the full engine source, or more along the lines of an SDK? I haven't seen anyone leak pictures of main source code spots yet. I haven't really had time to follow it, either.

sunny days have funny ways of quieting the roar
#35 by Squeaky
2003-10-02 21:19:49
I just wanted to let you all know that Eliza Dukshu is coming to my school tomorrow to shoot some scenes for a movie. I'll be sure to bring my digital camera. GIF! GIF!




fuck you all

The reason of your unreasonable usage of my reason, does so enfeeble my reason, that I have reason to expostulate with your beauty.
DVDs
#36 by ProStyle
2003-10-02 21:28:01
http://prostyle.deviantart.com
I dont see how the assumption is drawn that this leak will aid cheaters. By the time the game comes out don't you imagine the hacks they wrote for the leaked (not finished i'm assuming) code won't be compatible? That's ignoring Steam which I have some faith in for performing checks on players machines. I know if my copy of Hl2 would be invalidated by getting caught cheating i'd be feeling pretty stupid, not to mention be 50 dollars less rich.

I'm like a quote out of context...
#37 by Matt Perkins
2003-10-02 21:35:21
wizardque@yahoo.com http://whatwouldmattdo.com/
Eliza Dukshu is coming to my school

Hmmm...  I guess it's a good thing I don't work there, I don't think my wife would allow me to go.   Something about my obession with the bandana for a shirt thing.  :P

"I'm an extreme programmer. I don't plan anything when I code."- Lord Nekrull
#38 by Dethstryk
2003-10-02 21:50:31
jemartin@tcainternet.com
Cheats will be written the minute the SDK comes out, anyway. That's how it works.

sunny days have funny ways of quieting the roar
#39 by Shadarr
2003-10-02 21:52:26
shadarr@yahoo.com http://digital-luddite.com
Perhaps this will make it easier for the crackers to rip out all that crappy Steam authentication crap, so you can play LAN games without an internet connection (and only one CD).
#40 by Dethstryk
2003-10-02 21:53:48
jemartin@tcainternet.com
I thought they went back and said that LAN games didn't need to have Steam authentication? I mean, that's, well.. fucking retarded.

sunny days have funny ways of quieting the roar
#41 by lwf
2003-10-02 21:58:11
Lanning without internet is so 1998.

the rain hits the ground and the trees they dry it up
#42 by Dethstryk
2003-10-02 22:01:01
jemartin@tcainternet.com
True, but it's still ridiculous to require authentication from an outside server when every machine involved (including server) are on the same network.

sunny days have funny ways of quieting the roar
#43 by Shadarr
2003-10-02 22:02:05
shadarr@yahoo.com http://digital-luddite.com
I thought they went back and said that LAN games didn't need to have Steam authentication?


Did they?  Last I heard it was "If you so much as think about multiplayer Steam will install itself and reconfigure your machine to suit its own needs."
#44 by Dethstryk
2003-10-02 22:03:26
jemartin@tcainternet.com
Hrmf. This is the problem with HL2; Valve isn't controlling the rumors at all with at least an attempt to set some issues straight.

sunny days have funny ways of quieting the roar
#45 by ProStyle
2003-10-02 22:05:48
http://prostyle.deviantart.com
I think they'll have them pretty well under control when the game is released.

I'm like a quote out of context...
#46 by Gunp01nt
2003-10-02 22:09:12
supersimon33@hotmail.com
Warren:
This would undoubtably push back the release date (whatever it currently is) by at least a month.


the plot comes together.

Little things like the apocalyptic extinction of all human life tend to make nuclear war a tad less necessary.
#47 by Darkseid-D
2003-10-02 22:50:43
rogerboal@hotmail.com
Immanuel Kant was a real pissant
Who was very rarely stable
Heidegger, Heidegger was a boozy beggar
Who could take you under the table
David Hume could out-consume
Schopenhauer and Hegel
And Wittgenstein was a beery swine
Who was just as sloshed as Schlegel
There's nothing Nietszche couldn't teach ya
'Bout the raising of the wrist
Socrates himself was permanently pissed
John Stuart Mill of his own free will
On half a pint of shandy was particularly ill
Plato they say could stick it away
Half a crate of whiskey every day
Aristotle, Aristotle was a bugger for the bottle
Hobbes was fond of his Dram
And Rene Descartes was a drunken fart
"I drink, therefore I am !"
Yes Socrates himself is particularly missed
A lovely little thinker
But a bugger when he's pissed.


oh and heres a freebie magazine link - http://www.magazine-city.net/razor/razor.asp

Do not go gently into that good night.
Old age should burn and rage at the close of day.
Rage, rage against the dying of the light.
#48 by Squeaky
2003-10-02 22:53:29
#47 Darkseid-D
oh and heres a freebie magazine link - http://www.magazine-city.net/razor/razor.asp

Well that doesn't help now us non Yanks does it?


What is Razor? Does the warez group have it's own magazine now?

The reason of your unreasonable usage of my reason, does so enfeeble my reason, that I have reason to expostulate with your beauty.
DVDs
#49 by The_Joker
2003-10-02 23:18:12
http://www.jackinworld.com
I'll bet anyone 50 bucks that DNF's source code and content gets leaked before it, if ever, ships.

Joker, Ph.D. Procedural Assholian Behaviour, Pedophilosopher
- All your ass are belong to my wang Jafd. Prepare to are penetration.
"I fart in THX." - Sgt_Hulka

PENETRATOR: Rise of the Wang Cuming "When it's done".
#50 by The_Joker
2003-10-02 23:19:23
http://www.jackinworld.com
and now, for my daily wank session...

Joker, Ph.D. Procedural Assholian Behaviour, Pedophilosopher
- All your ass are belong to my wang Jafd. Prepare to are penetration.
"I fart in THX." - Sgt_Hulka

PENETRATOR: Rise of the Wang Cuming "When it's done".
#51 by Ashiran
2003-10-02 23:38:34
You only have one wank session? Or does it last all day?

AND DON'T ADD A SMILEY AFTER EVERY GODDAMN THING YOU SAY!
#52 by "wabut"
2003-10-02 23:44:08
wabut@yahoo.com http://jove.prohosting.com/~datafox
official statement from gabe via shugashack via halflife2forums -> http://www.shacknews.com/onearticle.x/28619
#53 by Neale
2003-10-02 23:45:44
neale@pimurho.co.uk www.pimurho.co.uk
From Gabe:

Ever have one of those weeks? This has just not been the best couple of days
for me or for Valve.

Yes, the source code that has been posted is the HL-2 source code.

Here is what we know:

1) Starting around 9/11 of this year, someone other than me was accessing my
email account. This has been determined by looking at traffic on our email
server versus my travel schedule.

2) Shortly afterwards my machine started acting weird (right-clicking on
executables would crash explorer). I was unable to find a virus or trojan on
my machine, I reformatted my hard drive, and reinstalled.

3) For the next week, there appears to have been suspicious activity on my
webmail account.

4) Around 9/19 someone made a copy of the HL-2 source tree.

5) At some point, keystroke recorders got installed on several machines at
Valve. Our speculation is that these were done via a buffer overflow in
Outlook's preview pane. This recorder is apparently a customized version of
RemoteAnywhere created to infect Valve (at least it hasn't been seen
anywhere else, and isn't detected by normal virus scanning tools).

6) Periodically for the last year we've been the subject of a variety of
denial of service attacks targetted at our webservers and at Steam. We don't
know if these are related or independent.

Well, this sucks.

What I'd appreciate is the assistance of the community in tracking this
down. I have a special email address for people to send information to,
helpvalve@valvesoftware.com. If you have information about the denial of
service attacks or the infiltration of our network, please send the details.
There are some pretty obvious places to start with the posts and records in
IRC, so if you can point us in the right direction, that would be great.

We at Valve have always thought of ourselves as being part of a community,
and I can't imagine a better group of people to help us take care of these
problems than this community.

Gabe


__________________
Gabe Newell

You can't derail this train of idiocy, Shadarr. Not even with a big fat cow of logic on the tracks. - Bailey
#54 by Dumdeedum
2003-10-02 23:46:35
http://www.dumdeedum.com
Gabe Newell appears to have confirmed that it is the HL2 source, he also seems to have appended some sort of conspiracy theory to the end of his post...

Studies have shown that I'm right.
#55 by Dumdeedum
2003-10-02 23:46:56
http://www.dumdeedum.com
Buggering fuck.

Studies have shown that I'm right.
#56 by Warren Marshall
2003-10-02 23:48:20
http://www.wantonhubris.com/
So has Gabe confirmed this yet?

Respawn Games
Open your mind, let the beatings begin.
#57 by Dethstryk
2003-10-02 23:48:53
jemartin@tcainternet.com
The source, or the SDK? I have someone from VU telling me it's the SDK, and Gabe's wording (the HL2 source) makes me think it's the SDK as well.

sunny days have funny ways of quieting the roar
#58 by Neale
2003-10-02 23:51:20
neale@pimurho.co.uk www.pimurho.co.uk
It's the full source, not the SDK.

You can't derail this train of idiocy, Shadarr. Not even with a big fat cow of logic on the tracks. - Bailey
#59 by Dethstryk
2003-10-02 23:51:40
jemartin@tcainternet.com
Well, I don't think the SDK would have rendering routines or low-level BSP stuff, huh? Nevermind.

sunny days have funny ways of quieting the roar
#60 by Dethstryk
2003-10-02 23:51:48
jemartin@tcainternet.com
Damnit, Neale.

sunny days have funny ways of quieting the roar
#61 by Squeaky
2003-10-02 23:52:34
So does anybody know what the status of the leak is? Is it full source or just the SDK?

The reason of your unreasonable usage of my reason, does so enfeeble my reason, that I have reason to expostulate with your beauty.
DVDs
#62 by Dethstryk
2003-10-02 23:53:09
jemartin@tcainternet.com
I heard that it was the SDK with child porn as file padding.

sunny days have funny ways of quieting the roar
#63 by Gunp01nt
2003-10-02 23:58:50
supersimon33@hotmail.com
4) Around 9/19 someone made a copy of the HL-2 source tree.


who wants to bet that this is the reason for the delay?

Wir flashen jedes Weekend, und alles just for you
We do this cause we love it, come here und hör uns zu
#64 by broken
2003-10-03 00:07:15
broken@vampn.com
"1) Starting around 9/11 of this year, someone other than me was accessing my
email account."

Check out the date... Can we blame the terrorists for this? Maybe the terrorists got pissed at Valve for killing their CounterStrike hacks?
#65 by yotsuya
2003-10-03 00:07:36
So has Gabe confirmed that it's the full version with neuters?

"YES!!  You see people, THAT'S why he's the Vice-President of A/V Services here at Respawn Games.  Yotsuya ALWAYS unleashes the fucking fury!" - Warren Marshall
#66 by Leslie Nassar
2003-10-03 00:07:45
http://departmentofinternets.com
Who wants to bet that the reason for the delay is because it wasn't finished yet?

"There are design firms out there that could come up with things we've never thought of," Jobs continued, "things that would make you shit in your pants."
#67 by yotsuya
2003-10-03 00:09:38
Leslie-

That theory, while probably true, isn't sexy enough. Suspicious hacks around 9/11 are a guaranteed 40 share and million dollar movie rights on CBS. I can see it now "Taking Steam from The Valve: The Half Life 2/Jessica Lynch Story".

"YES!!  You see people, THAT'S why he's the Vice-President of A/V Services here at Respawn Games.  Yotsuya ALWAYS unleashes the fucking fury!" - Warren Marshall
#68 by Gunp01nt
2003-10-03 00:15:09
supersimon33@hotmail.com
Who wants to bet that the reason for the delay is because it wasn't finished yet?


that's the point. They'd been working on it for five years. they probably had a good lookout on when the game would be finished by the time they announced it earlier this year. That was the whole point of the 'radio silence > mass bombardment' strategy. So a half year before the release they're confident that they're gonna make the release date. only a week before the release date, they delay the game.

I find it hard to believe that Valve would only realise a week in advance that they need an x number of extra months for development. If a development delay (of several months, no less) would be necessary, they would've known a longer time ago.

The fact that the delay was announced so shortly after the source steal (and so close to the original release date) makes me wonder.

As for the question: "how about they did know it would have to be delayed, but just kept a lid on it?"... that wouldn't help them. I don't think I have to explain why announcing a delay only a week before release is bad, and I don't think Valve would do it willingly. They probably know it's bad practice and are only doing it because they have to. Because 'external factors' are fucking with the game's development, something they couldn't foresee.

Wir flashen jedes Weekend, und alles just for you
We do this cause we love it, come here und hör uns zu
#69 by Dethstryk
2003-10-03 00:16:14
jemartin@tcainternet.com
What exactly is the source tree?

sunny days have funny ways of quieting the roar
#70 by yotsuya
2003-10-03 00:17:06
Gabe keeps going to it for ideas. Take my branches, Gabe, and make yourself sheets of paper to print the manual on.

"YES!!  You see people, THAT'S why he's the Vice-President of A/V Services here at Respawn Games.  Yotsuya ALWAYS unleashes the fucking fury!" - Warren Marshall
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